Evergreen View Tower Soi 56, 10260 Bangkok

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#1 Re: What is wrong? Discuss here with others! » Swimming pool green again/March 2017 » 2017-03-15 11:46:52

Some follow up since the pool is still not swimmable:

On March 6, 2017 BM group, the buildings management company promised to fix the problems within two days. I knew they would fail, but why should anyone listen to a pool expert. So two days later the swimming pool was still green. They couldn't get anything done. To their luck one of the water problems went out of order so they could blame the water pump.

But the miracle happened: they always blame the water pump for the reason that the water is green. But now, one week later and without the water pump the water is clear. So once more they contradict themselves.

Now they are waiting for the new water pump to be delivered.

Now that is how the swimming pool is looking like as of March 14, 2017:

y3mODr7pO86PljInOTJ99GdCMxphqshj7YwujJRq8HFnf1a2nLssM1nmTnLPL_bka7EA0DajVsoTsEATM-_kso9-aVQ6_EA6WcMhm-xR64L8J8klSW46yfHOI55B1oVc3gMkIhTEH3p-EP423EGW_x_7uu0AQnjLZ-isvKf_1RYywU?width=660&height=371&cropmode=none

I donated a test kit, a more professional one then the management is offering. Only if we know what is in there in the pool we can properly maintain it. So here are the first readings I have done

test1703141.jpg
test1703142.jpg

Then my readings are the following:
total hardness: way too high with about 1000
total chlorine: about 10
free chlorine: around 10 as well, way too high
pH: Is about 6.8
Total alkalinity: 0
Cyanuric acid: I would say between 50 and 100

#2 Re: What is the committee doing? » AGM with election was on January 8, 2017 - and now? » 2017-03-07 16:14:29

as of March 7, 2017 still no change. We are still waiting for the response of the land department to the complaint about the general meeting from January 8, 2017.
So still the old committee is in charge - even if they don't want to do, do not want to decide something anymore.

The co-owners elected on January 8, 2017 are keen to start doing something, start to work.
With a flexible and open-minded JPM we could do a lot but the current JPM is extremly reluctant in taking decisions. But we need a JPM ready to take decisions. A JPM who knows the law or at least read the existing Thai condo act. A JPM seeing chances and not riding on theoretical risks...

#3 Re: What is wrong? Discuss here with others! » Swimming pool green again/March 2017 » 2017-03-05 18:11:00

Today, March 5, 2017 nothing changed. Whereas that is not entirely true.

Yesterday they put for the first time enough chlorine into the swimming pool. This morning you could see that some debris sunk to the ground of the swimming pool. Some maintenance staff showed up and started vacuum cleaning the ground of the swimming pool. But they made the same mistake they did back in January. The water vacuum cleaned away must be sent to the sewage water system. Under no circumstances can this water be send through the filter back into the pool. The filter cannot filter out the super tiny particles the debris consisted of.
But of course they didn't know. So the debris was vacuum cleaned only to be sent back into the pool through the filter.

http://allsiam.net/upload/server/php/fi … 170305.jpg

Even if the action taken by the JPM is visibly not successful for two consecutive days still nothing is done yet to get back the pool to a swimmable situation.

This is what I have written in a group where the responsible person can read on the evening of March 5, 2017

#4 What is wrong? Discuss here with others! » Swimming pool green again/March 2017 » 2017-03-04 23:44:49

explorer
Replies: 2

And there we go again. The pool is dirty and green.

http://allsiam.net/upload/server/php/fi … 170228.png

It seems that on February 27 it was only me realizing that the pool would collapse again. Since on January 28 the situation worsened I decided to post a hint in a line group the management is reading. Unfortunately the management decided to do nothing.
So the inevitable happened.

Someone from the management blamed the water pump, then that there are so many people in the pool (what a nonsense, in five years I have never seen many people in  our swimming pool).

The swimming pool is almost always empty. There simply aren't many people using it. This pool does certainly not get green from too many people using it. What a nonsense.

To blame the filter alone is wrong as well. At least as important as the filter is the right chemistry in the pool. I don't understand why you, ..., belief what ever BM group says. There's so much information about pools in the Internet out there. And the same rules of physics that are applying to swimming pools all around the world do also apply to the Evergreen view tower swimming pool.

And as long as we don't know which chemicals are in the pool and which chemicals are needed we always will have problems. For example we have a pH value that is by far too low. Then the chlorine cannot do its work properly. Hence they need to use lots of chlorine, a lot more of chlorine then normally needed. That also cost a lot of money. If we would buy the right instrument to measure what chemicals are out there in the pool we would save this money back quickly because we do not need so much chlorine.

So even if you have no filter at all the pool does not get green if the right amount of certain chemicals are in the pool, if the values are where they should be:

pH: 7.2 - 7.8
Total alkalinity: 80 - 120 ppm
Chlorine: 1.0 - 2.0 ppm
Cyanuric Acid: 40 - 80 ppm
Calcium hardness: 180 - 220 ppm, though some say 200 - 400
Total Dissolved Solids: below 5000 ppm

But in our pool we don't know nothing... And no one wants to make the decision to change that. It would be very easy. But the ones in charge don't do anything...

#5 Re: What is the committee doing? » Suggestions > 1st committee meeting for the committee elected 01/2017 » 2017-02-21 14:22:57

And one more: since the repair of one of the elevators will cost about 800,000 baht we should start renting out vacant parking lots.
Advertising  on empty outdoor building walls can bring an additional money.
At least we could discuss also to rent out the roof.

I mean millions of baht are needed to renovate the water supply system within the building, almost 1 million to replace the elevator cable and be rest assured: in a 25 year old building maintained that bad the next failure and therefore cost is just waiting around the corner.

So we need every baht we can get.

#6 Re: What is the committee doing? » Suggestions > 1st committee meeting for the committee elected 01/2017 » 2017-02-21 14:19:05

And since we have had a safety issue just a few days ago we also should:

1. Unlock all fire hoses that are still padlocked
2. Install anti collision lights on the roof

Doing so we would also comply with the law then.

#7 Re: What is the committee doing? » Suggestions > 1st committee meeting for the committee elected 01/2017 » 2017-02-21 14:17:14

Let me add another suggestion: the most easy way to save money would be to change the buildings lighting to LED. The calculation you find attached in an Excel file, on top of the table additional information is provided. So we would only need to vote about it. Constructive criticism is very welcome.

Find this Excel file here:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/mqmnuf63a54zs … c.xls?dl=0

#8 What is the committee doing? » Suggestions > 1st committee meeting for the committee elected 01/2017 » 2017-02-21 14:15:27

explorer
Replies: 3

So far the following was suggested to be on the agenda for the first committee meeting of the committee elected on January 8, 2017:


http://allsiam.net/upload/server/php/fi … eeting.jpg


See the latest draft:

Agenda first meeting Draft

#9 Re: What is the committee doing? » AGM with election was on January 8, 2017 - and now? » 2017-02-21 14:11:54

The new committee, elected January 8, 2017  could not come together yet.  The papers necessary to be submitted to the land department have been ready by January 22. But the buildings management BM group needed two additional weeks to prepare the required paper the land department is asking for.

But this is only one reason. The second reason is that one former committee member complained to the land department about the annual general meeting on January 8. The land department now is looking into the issue which will delay the process further.

That means as of February 21, 2017 the old committee is still in charge.

#10 Re: What is wrong? Discuss here with others! » Swimming pool dirty / algae problem » 2017-01-23 13:04:07

In the meantime I could convince the office to hire a "Professional" Company to take care our swimming pool.

They cleared up the swimming pool with a special filter. Unfortunately I am not convinced by their work. The swimming pool is still not really clear. The pH value is still far too low.

This swimming pool  company did a poor job. On the day they arrived not even had instruments for water analyzes. They borrowed the cheap water analyzing "device" used by our maintenance staff.
So there was no water analyzes.

What they actually didn't is curing the symptoms but not really the reason why the pool developed a long-lasting problem.

Yesterday evening, January 22, I added more PH plus cchemical since the pH value is far too low. The maintenance staff did not clean the filter for at least five days, I hope they will do it today.

So let's see what will happen, I will have an eye on it...

#11 What is the committee doing? » AGM with election was on January 8, 2017 - and now? » 2017-01-23 12:58:19

explorer
Replies: 2

Actually right now we are still all waiting to be registered at the land department.

There are two reasons for that:
1. One elected committee member changed his mind and does not want to become a committee member anymore
2. Another elected committee member is not 100% sure right now if you want to become a committee member on not. So we give him another two days to decide before we release the the remaining seven committee members elect with the land department to become the new committee members.

So as of January 23, 2017 the old committee is still in charge.

#12 Re: What is wrong? Discuss here with others! » Swimming pool dirty / algae problem » 2017-01-18 10:06:40

The Floccalant chemical I used in the night only worked partly, some of the dust in the pool settled to the floor. I asked our maintenance guy to vacuum clean it. But, I added, he needs to make sure that the water he is vacuum cleaning away would be directed to the sewage water system and not through the filter back into the pool. He told me he will do so. I extra called my wife to make sure he exactly understands what is important. In addition I made a drawing so that there cannot be any misunderstanding. But when he started vacuum cleaning I have seen that water was coming through the vents on the bottom of the swimming pool. So all the dust collected on the bottom of the pool was stird/mixed back into the water everywhere in the pool.

So in addition to that our maintenance guy does not know how much water is in the pool (and can not dose chemicals in the right way), does not know which chemicals need to be used he also does not know how to regulate the water flow in the maintenance room below the swimming pool. And it even comes worse: my wife called BM group to ask for someone can tell us how to operate the pumping system. They called back our maintenance guy and told him just to continue as he did before, that's okay. So the pool is dirty for three weeks now and they say that's okay. Not a situation someone would need to be concerned.
Anyway finally I went into J.D. Pools swimming pool maintenance branch here along Bangna Trad Road and at least Eddie (current Evergreen manager) agreed to let the pool being serviced by them.

I understand if someone doesn't know something, I do not know everything is well, but I do not understand someone who is responsible for something that he or she does not even try to get the right information which is available in the Internet even in Thai language.

#13 Re: What is wrong? Discuss here with others! » Swimming pool dirty / algae problem » 2017-01-17 11:38:53

Trying to get the swimming pool back to swimmable condition is really a nightmare.

January 8, 2017 I ordered the right chemicals in the shop promised delivery not later than January 11.
Since nothing arrived by January 14 I tried to find another shop here in Bangkok where I can pick up what I need right away. Again very difficult to get someone on the phone. But finally a branch of J.D. swimming pools here on Bangna Trad Road at least could provide me a test kit for pH and chlorine levels and a pH riser. But they do not have Floccalant or something similar. Unbelievable. Anyway I could test the pool water by myself now. Turns out that probably the chemicals needed are in the wrong bottles. Of course I put my own action into question until other pool owners agreed that there must be something wrong in the fault is not with me.

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The chemical from the red colored little bottle should be put in the tube to measure the pH value and the yellow colored little bottle should be added into the tube to measure the chlorine value. But the colors come out wrong, it should be the elevator around.

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The so-called chemical Floccalant actually arrived January 16, 2017. Okay, I thought, now I have everything needed. When I checked the chemicals I had to find out that there was no dosage given for the urgently needed Floccalant. The Floccalant is needed to bind the dead algae in the swimming pool and let it sink to the bottom of the swimming pool. That it would be easy to just vacuum clean it away from the bottom of the swimming pool. So I added about 1 1/2 kg only to find out the next morning that it probably has not been enough. The shop selling the chemical does not respond and not reply to any of my requests.

Anyway there has been some dust on the bottom of the swimming pool. I asked the maintenance guy of our building to set the pumping system of the swimming pool in a way that the water and test vacuum cleaned away from the bottom of the swimming pool would go right away to the sewage water system, and not through the filter back into the swimming pool. That is the normal way it should be. Actually there should not be any extra movement in the pool to avoid the dust settled on the bottom moving around again. But it seems that either no one showed our maintenance guy how to choose the right setting or that it is even not possible. We mounted the vacuum cleaner to the water hose and even if I made sure (at least I thought so) that he clearly understood what I want or what is needed water started to stream out from the vents from the bottom of the swimming pool.

We tried a few settings but couldn't get it fixed.

So I really don't know what to do now. We called BM group to send someone who can help.

So the nightmare continues.

In the following picture you see what should be possible and normally is possible with every swimming pool. Option one is the normal. But in case after you used Floccalant and want to vacuum clean the debris that sunk to the bottom of the pool you need to pump all these the breeze into the sewage water system. And for that case option two is necessary. With no water being added to the pool during the time you use the vacuum cleaner.

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#14 Re: What is wrong? Discuss here with others! » Swimming pool dirty / algae problem » 2017-01-12 22:04:19

The pool appeared to be in an opaque tone.

But this is not what we want. I am still waiting for the chemicals to arrive. Anyway I got boring waiting for them and tomorrow I will stop by a swimming pool appliances shop in Soi Onnut to buy a pH raiser. Probably also my own test kit for chlorine and pH values.

As everybody can see in the second picture of this thread there is a yellowish color in the buildings test kit for the pH value. That is indicating that the pH value Is far too low. Now the problem is that no one told our maintenance guy how to interpret these colors. Hence he says he cannot see something.

Anyway since they don't have an PH+ chemical  not much can be done right now. Have to wait until tomorrow, January 13.

#15 Re: What is wrong? Discuss here with others! » Swimming pool dirty / algae problem » 2017-01-12 08:58:03

Another update:
after someone added tons of chlorine the pool eventually cleared up.

In the morning of Jan 11 the green already disappeared a bit, getting a lot clearer in the afternoon.

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After two and a half weeks at least someone brought and ordered to use the right chemical. Anyway no one with the right knowledge would add the chlorine to shock a pool during the daytime. Chlorine is not a cheap chemical, so you want to add it when it is most efficient.
In addition it seems they just add a lot instead of calculating how much is really needed.
I have not seen the pool yet today, January 12.  So I am curious how it will look today…

#16 Re: What is wrong? Discuss here with others! » Swimming pool dirty / algae problem » 2017-01-11 06:57:27

Here Is an update:
the swimming pool appliances supplier confirmed to have sent the products/chemicals ordered

Anyway something went wrong and someone from be an group applied some chemicals into the pool  even if they do not have the right chemicals. Here is what I have written in the committee's line group on January 10, 2017  in the afternoon after I discovered that:

16:40  I asked our maintenance staff not to put any chemicals into the swimming pool before the new chemicals arrive. But he doesn't care. And he also apply whatever he applies in the daytime. It's a complete waste of money since the UV rays eat up the free chlorine.
16:42  And because they don't care about how to maintain the pool in the right way they try without any result for two weeks now
16:58  He said just right now that someone from BM group has done it. So it's not our maintenance staff fault.

#17 What is wrong? Discuss here with others! » Water leaking into the concrete on the roof » 2017-01-09 17:09:13

explorer
Replies: 0

months ago I showed that video I shot on the roof of our Evergreen view tower to a member of the previous committee.

https://vimeo.com/177973483

Water leaking into the concrete

It would have been so easy to at least seal the still tiny canals leading deeper into the concrete. unfortunately nothing happened. But every expert would confirm that sooner or later inevitable would happen: concrete cancer would cause huge cracks, water would leak into the penthouse and very expensive repairs would need to be done.

Why not invest a few hundred baht and fixed the problem  as long as it is just a little problem?

#18 Your suggestions » Aircraft warning lights or Anti collision lights on the roof » 2017-01-09 16:45:30

explorer
Replies: 0

Several huge planes flying over Evergreen view tower every day. And even if law requires to have aircraft warning lights in such high buildings so far there are none active here.

Aircraft warning lights are high-intensity lighting devices that are attached to tall structures and are used as collision avoidance measures. Such devices make structures more visible to passing aircraft and are usually used at night, although they may be used during the day as well. These lights need to be of sufficient brightness in order to be visible for miles around the structure.

As a pilot I know how important that is. Why should we expose Evergreen view tower to the risk not to be seen by a pilot? It does not cost a fortune to install the right light  on top of our roof.

#19 Your suggestions » Unlock all the locked fire hoses in every floor » 2017-01-09 16:30:34

explorer
Replies: 0

In case of a fire quick access to water could make a huge difference in the damage normally caused by fires. That' s why there are laws  ensuring that there are Fire hoses In such buildings like our Evergreen view tower. And there are also laws regulating that these fire hoses cannot be locked away. Yet they are locked away here.

When I mentioned that previously to the management the answer was that people would steal the fire hoses. Actually that would be a good thing. They should be replaced every about 10 years anyway. As I know the management I simply guess that they have never been tested.

A fire hose is the connecting link in water-based non-sprinkler fire suppression systems. No matter how much water pressure your pump provides, or what pattern of coverage your nozzle delivers, if your fire hose fails, the fire is free to burn unchecked.

It is easy to see that the fire department hoses can be subject to a lot of abuse, but what about those hoses in your building? On-premise fire hoses in commercial or other publicly-occupied buildings are usually stored on hose reels, racks or in hose cabinets. Like any hose, they are subject to both physical damage and age-related failure. Just as your garden hose can fail due to internal and external abrasion, or develop a hole or weak area due to aging of the material, your fire hose can lose its structural integrity and be unable to do its job.

#20 Re: Your suggestions » Saving our community 10,000 baht per month by changing to LED » 2017-01-09 10:58:19

Here everyone can find a complete calculation in an excel file. I counted all the lights in the parking garage for example to make sure it is accurate.

Savings in Baht by changing all lights to LED

#21 What is wrong? Discuss here with others! » Swimming pool dirty / algae problem » 2017-01-09 08:28:53

explorer
Replies: 6

The swimming pool is very dirty and not swimmable for two weeks now.

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Unfortunately there is no quality system installed to maintain the pool. There is no maintenance plan  and there are not even all chemicals needed to keep the swimming pool clean and clear.

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First thing done yesterday was to check the PH value as well as how much chlorine is in the pool. The acidity, as of January 8, 2017 is far too low. And there is almost no chlorine in the pool. That is why the algae could develop. And the pool turned green.

We ordered, on our own cost, the right chemicals.


You can expect the Swimming pool, if the chemicals arrive by wednesday, to be clean again on Thursday or Friday this week.

It is very important to have enough chlorine in the pool. So the first thing after the arrival of the chemicals is to shock the pool with an extra load of chlorine.
This has to be done in the evening after sunset since the sunrays are eating up the chlorine. If the chlorine is applied to early it is practically close to useless.
After the chlorine has done its work overnight a so-called "Flocalant" has to be added to the pool. The algae, now dead, will sink to the bbottom of the swimming pool. And then it can be vacuum cleaned easily and we should have a clean pool again.

We will make sure that the pool will be maintained in the right way. There have been always clouds of dust on the floor of the swimming pool. Maintained in the right way this will not happen again.
We keep you posted

#23 What is wrong? Discuss here with others! » No transparency in the committee so far » 2016-06-22 17:22:54

explorer
Replies: 0

Make the committee and their decisions transparent. I want to know who is voting for what. The condo law clearly expect a real voting where everyone can see who voted for what. Right now some of the committee members say to a decision turning out to not have been so good that he or she never voted for it. Some simply blame others for their own faults. That also has to stop.

In the last 18 months practically only one or two committee members decided everything. The majority of the committee didn't care. Now, after they resigned they can change to the better.

#24 What is wrong? Discuss here with others! » Extraordinary meeting of all co-owners on Sunday, June 19, 2016 » 2016-06-22 16:30:52

explorer
Replies: 0

if you have visited this meeting you know that it was about one respectively to committee members acting against the law. For example is it against the law in Thailand to change the management of a condominium building without having the votes of at least 25% of the co-owners in a general meeting.

Yet the committee member who resigned on Sunday did exactly that.

10 days back two other committee members wanted to check the books of Evergreen juristic person. A few hours before the appointment the now resigned committee member kicked out the staff from Evergreen office and sent them home, locked the office and switched off the CCTV surveillance camera.

Away from the question of why the security didn't act ( how can they let anyone switch off a CCTV camera?) another question arises: the resign committee member claimed on Sunday that she lock the office just only because she feared that the staff of BM group would steal some important papers.


1. Why didn't she inform the other members about her suspicion and that she locked the office?
2. And why would someone suspecting something odd going on switch off a security camera?

#25 Re: Your suggestions » Saving our community 10,000 baht per month by changing to LED » 2016-06-22 16:20:33

So let's see today how to save the money. The eight lightbulbs in every floor consuming now nine Watt per hour can be replaced by  3 W LED light bulbs. The other 40 light bulbs can be replaced with three W LED light bulbs as well.

So that's the new calculation for the light bulbs:

8 lamps per floor x 24 hours x 3 watt x 30 floors x 365 days = 6307200 watt / 1000 = 6307.2 KW (28382.40 Baht)
40 more lamps in elevators and so on: 40 x 3 x 24 x 365 = 1051200 watt / 1000 = 1051.2 KW (4730.40 Baht)

Just to exchange these light bulbs would result in an immediate reduction of the energy bill of 99338.4-33112.8 Baht = 66225.60 Baht/year.

not included in this calculation are the savings by the extended lifetime of the new LED technology of about 100% at least.  So even more money would be saved.

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